Things to Discuss Before the Wedding

Catherine Ipcizade (5617) 21 Jul 2006 11:59 PM

I don't think you're being negative at all. It IS a delicate balance and a tough thing to marry someone either from a different culture or a different religion. And if you marry someone from a different culture AND religion, as I did, then it's doubly difficult. We've certainly had our share of miscommunication and even some all out tough times. I think your articles are enlightening and honest.

WordsAplenty (4029) 22 Jul 2006 12:21 AM

Thanks, Catherine! My husband is Egyptian. Although I did convert prior to our wedding, we've had our share of culture clashes, too. Even if you're Muslim, there is a difference between a born Muslim and a convert. As you know, there are huge cultural differences, sometimes just entirely different ways of seeing the world. Without clear communication, these can become major obstacles. You and your husband clearly have good communication. That'll get you through anything! (En Sha Allah!)

Catherine Ipcizade (5617) 23 Jul 2006 05:06 PM

Let's hope so...it can be a difficult road at times, that's for certain. Sounds like you and your husband have good communication as well. I'm so glad.

Clymenestra (5) 25 Jul 2006 10:12 PM

I am no posting this to incite a flame war. That said, during my life, I have met several charming, attractive Muslim men. But I would never marry them, I would never convert to Islam nor would I ever allow any children of mine to be raised Muslim.

In two words, HONOR KILLINGS. I do not believe a man should have life and death rights over his wife or his daughters. In fact, I know that I would take out any man who would even think of harming my child, in the most violent, painful way possible. And families who make a practice of "honor killing" victims of rape rather than their rapists...ohh, no, you don't!

I can understand why every sexually frustrated male adolescent could be attracted to Islam. Yes, I've heard about the infamous 72 virgin houris that await them in the afterlife after being granted lifelong sovereignty over the women in his immediate jursidiction. What I cannot understand is how any woman who has taken a cold, hard, pragmatic look at this religion could still convert to it! First of all, your subjugation is encoded into the koran. You can be treated like a dog. He can pretty much do what he wants to with you. But there is nothing to indicate that a Muslim women even enters heaven. (I guess there isn't enough room with all those virgins running around).

And I don't care how Islamic Apologists like to sell Allah as the same deity as my God, Jehovah. I don't see any resemblance between the two at all. My God who is also my Heavenly Father values His daughters as much as His sons. He does not set husbands in authority over their wives and chldren so they can freely abuse it. My God shows the same love and mercy to me as he does any man.

Again, I truly understand the lure of Muslim men. Particularly those from the Mideast. But I think Americans have a tendency to romanticize foreign cultures too much for their own good. Often different is not better, it's not only different, is plain worst. I would really suggest that any woman considering marriage to a Muslim look beyond the soft sales pitch of Islam and take her time, get acquainted with the good, the bad, and particularly the ugly so she can make an informed choice.

WordsAplenty (4029) 25 Jul 2006 10:41 PM

Wow! There is certainly a lot of misinformation and bigotry in that comment. So much so, that I don't even know where to begin. First of all, honor killings are a cultural problem, and are no way condoned or ordered by God. They are completely un-Islamic. Secondly, of course women enter Heaven. Third, if you really look at Christianity and Judaism, husbands do have a bit of authority over wives. Just because not all marriages follow that teaching, it doesn't mean the teaching isn't there. And, Muslim men are not ordered, instructed, or allowed to abuse their wives. I will not say that no Muslim men are abusive as I'm sure some probably are. But, the same could be said of any religion. Abuse is not allowed by God, but some people become abusers. It has nothing to do with religion. As for terrorism, again, you can't judge a religion by a few bad seeds. Throughout history, lives have been lost and blood has been shed in the name of God. Does that really reflect on the particular religion, or on the people responsible? I have been married for 10 years, and my husband has never laid a hand on any of our children. He is gentle and loving. His worst sin is sometimes yelling when he's angry. Overall, he is a wonderful husband and a terrific father. He is also a devoted son and a loyal follower of Islam. And I doubt he's an exception.

I appreciate you reading my blog, but please do your research before you leave comments. There is really no place for such hatred. Keep reading, though. You might learn something.

Catherine Ipcizade (5617) 27 Jul 2006 04:57 PM

Well said, Misty. I did not convert to Islam when I married my husband, but I can tell you that your comments, Clymenestra, were very ignorant. Yes, Muslims worship God. The same God Christians do. Jesus is seen as God's son in the Christian Religion. Mohammed is seen as a Prophet in the Muslim religion. Muslims do not pray to Mohammed, they pray to God. There's only one. As for honor killings, if you actually met and spent time with muslims you would know that, as Misty said, that is a cultural thing not an Islamic thing. My husband is from Turkey, a secular country with secular views. My husband would no more condone of honor killings than would any other human being. Please understand what you are talking about next time before you post. It is sadly views like these that cause a backlash toward a lot of innocent people in this country and in my firm opinion, it's intolerable.

Lisa P (23843) 27 Jul 2006 09:04 PM

Wow! Clymenestra, it is really obvious here that there is so much misinformation that you are accepting at face value rather than doing your own homework. I am a Christian, but I've read the Koran and your problem is not with the Koran or Islam but with the desert culture of the Middle East (and mostly Northern Africa). The Koran tells men to honor women and protect them, not rape them and kill them.

Don't simply accept pop culture and what sells newspapers as truth and pick up a National Geographic, or better yet, read the Koran for some more reliable information about a religion and cultures you are clearly misinformed on.

WordsAplenty (4029) 27 Jul 2006 09:22 PM

Thanks, Lisa and Catherine. I, and all other Muslims, appreciate the support. The simple truth is, most Muslims are just normal, peace-loving people, just like anyone else. It's a real shame that this type of misinformation is being spread. Like Catherine said, it hurts all of us. If only more people were willing to move beyond the headlines and see the truth. I'm not trying to convert the world, but a little bit of respect and acceptance would be great.

WordsAplenty (4029) 28 Jul 2006 09:15 PM

Our own constitution doesn't specifically mention women. Are women not created equal? In most cases, writers and literature use the male pronoun to refer to all of mankind. Or perhaps you haven't heard of that? But, just for the record, the Quran mentions women in heaven in multiple places:

"Gardens of perpetual bliss: they shall enter there, as well as the righteous among their fathers, their spouses, and their offspring." (ar-Ra`d 13: 23)

"Indeed, the people of Paradise will be happily occupied. They and their wives shall be in shades, reclining on raised couches. There are for them fruits and there is for them all that they ask for" (Ya-Sin 36: 55-57)

"Enter the Garden, you and your wives, you will be made glad. There will be brought round for them trays of gold and goblets, and therein is all that the souls desire and eyes find sweet and you will stay there forever. This is the garden, which you are made to inherit because of what you used to do. Therein for you is fruit in plenty whence to eat." (Az-Zukhruf 43: 70-73)

There are many other places in the Qur’an where it is mentioned that men and women both will find their reward and none will be deprived. [See: Aal `Imran 3: 195; An-Nisa’, 4: 124; An-Nahl 16: 97; Al-Ahzab 33: 35; Ghafir 40: 40]

The life of women in Jannah will be as pleasant and happy as the life of men. Allah is not partial to any gender. He created both of them and He will take care of both of them according to their needs and desires.

So, please... do your research before you come on a public forum and post lies and bigotry. The purpose of this blog is to promote peace and understanding. If that is not in your agenda, kindly keep your comments to yourself. Religious bashing isn't tolerated here.

Melissa J (13685) 21 Aug 2006 05:07 PM

Misty, I learn so much from you. Always a pleasure to hear your views.

Julie Gentry (5734) 12 Nov 2006 01:27 AM

From the Q'uran: Sura 2:222. And marry not idolatrous women until they believe; even a believing bond women is better than an idolatress, although she may please you.

How do the husbands of those of you in mixed marriages reconcile the marriage with this command?

As to Clymestra's points, I'm sure some of it comes from misinformation. But not all of it. What about Q'uran 4:34? "Men are superior to women on account of the qualities with which God has gifted the one above the other, and on account of the outlay they make from their substance for them. Virtuous women are obedient, careful, during the husband's absence, because God has of them been careful. But chide those for whose refractoriness you have cause to fear; remove them into beds apart, and scourge them: but if they are obedient to you, then seek not occasion against them: verily, God is High, Great!"

You're absolutely correct that everything should be discussed before marriage. In ANY cross-cultural or cross-religious marriage, setting the ground rules and agreeing to abide by them are important.

There's an old saying that women marry men hoping they'll change while men marry women hoping they won't ;-).

Eva Molnar (5) 15 Nov 2006 05:48 PM

If you still check this place, please help. My problem is not with marriage but with the lack of it. I am with my Muslim boyfrien for 1.5 year and we are very happy together. I respect his religion (I am a Catholic), I found so many common values in the two that I would not even have any problem with becoming a Muslim. The problem is that my boyfriend's mum has arranged a marriage for him without his permission. He is from Afghanistan but lives in England for 4 years. The girl is Afghan and lives in Ireland for 15 years. He respects his mothers wish, he does not want to hurt his family. But we suffer a lot and do not want to get separated. Could anybody please help?

Misty (981) 24 Nov 2006 11:57 AM

I haven't checked comments in a while, but I'll try to catch up! Julie, yes the Koran does say women should be obedient to their husbands and that men have a "degree of authority" over women. If you study the Bible, you will find very similar verses. Although many people do not practice this today, Christianity also gives men the status of head of household. Understand, though, that this doesn't mean that husbands are dictators or abusers. Marriage is a partnership in Islam. Each party is equal, but with separate and distinct roles.

Eva, in Islam every person has the right to choose his or her spouse. Your "boyfriend" cannot be forced into marriage against his will. Yes, Muslims do generally consult with their parents in choosing a mate, but, ultimately, the decision is his. Has he tried speaking to his parents about this? Do be aware that Muslims are not to date, so his parents may object to his having a "girlfriend". Still, in the end, he is an adult and only he can choose his wife. Best of luck!

Misty (981) 24 Nov 2006 12:00 PM

And Julie, one more thing... Muslim men are not allowed to marry an "idolatrous"-- that would be an idol worshipper or pagan. Muslim men are only allowed to marry "people of the Book"-- Christians, Jews, or Muslims. A Muslim can marry any of those women and the woman is not required to convert, so there's really nothing to reconcile. The Muslim men we are discussing are well within their Islamic rights to marry Christians. My blogs are only meant to encourage open communication between the parties before marriage. Although mixed faith marriages are allowed, misunderstandings can arise.

nadila (5) 09 Jan 2007 03:16 AM

Eva, sister, i think you would be better off to give up on this guy. My family is also Afghani, and let me tell you children are very close to their parents and we usually follow their wishes. If this guy did not throw off the engagement and arrange for you to meet his mother already the future is shady for the two of you. Even in the West, Afghans will not usually throw off the wishes of our families as independently as native Brits.

Misty has some good info about Islam but Afghanis have some strong culture influences apart from Islamic rulings that may apply here. He has the right in Islam to refuse engagement to someone he does not like so if he didn't do that you should be asking yourself "why"? You mentioned you are religious so please make some prayers about this issue, I'm sure Allah will guide you in the best path.

quest (10) 12 Jan 2007 05:27 PM

Can you discuss more about finding a good Muslim wife in the first place? It seems that that is the most difficult, yet key step, to a successful marriage. I'm trying to solve that challenge in my blog about me searching for my Muslim wife

quest (10) 12 Jan 2007 05:27 PM

Oh, and my blog is muslimquest.blogspot.com